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	<title>Comments for this field is required</title>
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	<description>ethics, education, et cetera</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sun, 15 Jan 2012 06:01:10 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>Comment on Seligman on happiness: authentic or by definition? by pamela j. stubbart</title>
		<link>http://thisfieldisrequired.com/2012/01/03/seligman-on-happiness-authentic-or-by-definition/comment-page-1/#comment-10387</link>
		<dc:creator>pamela j. stubbart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Jan 2012 06:01:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thisfieldisrequired.com/?p=913#comment-10387</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s a good point about the antidepressants, Jeff. In fact I think that differences of opinion as to what happiness consists in may often underlie people&#039;s differences of opinion about them. In some sense, everyone&#039;s right: in terms of positive affect, ADs can make people&#039;s lives much better; in terms of meaningfulness or satisfaction, not so much (unless the new, higher level of positive affect facilitates people&#039;s reaching of other goals - career, family, etc).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That’s a good point about the antidepressants, Jeff. In fact I think that differences of opinion as to what happiness consists in may often underlie people’s differences of opinion about them. In some sense, everyone’s right: in terms of positive affect, ADs can make people’s lives much better; in terms of meaningfulness or satisfaction, not so much (unless the new, higher level of positive affect facilitates people’s reaching of other goals — career, family, etc).</p>
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		<title>Comment on Putting NH&#039;s new alternative curricula law in context by pamela j. stubbart</title>
		<link>http://thisfieldisrequired.com/2012/01/09/putting-nhs-new-alternative-curricula-law-in-context/comment-page-1/#comment-10386</link>
		<dc:creator>pamela j. stubbart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Jan 2012 05:59:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thisfieldisrequired.com/?p=918#comment-10386</guid>
		<description>Yep, you&#039;re definitely right that the costs of exiting the public school system are significant, and that alot more people will probably be coerced (rightly or wrongly) into staying in public school systems rather than leaving to go to private schools (especially since lowish cost Catholic private schools are closing left and right these days). The law may be a net negative, from the perspective of getting more kids into schools that teach the things that are publicly defensible (I&#039;m going to assume this includes evolution and such, but it may not, let&#039;s ignore that for now). 

I guess all I&#039;d have to say in partial defense of the new law is that there&#039;s something more at stake than just which school which kids attend. Policies like the new law may cause religious and other curriculum-objecting parents to take new, more positive attitudes towards the public schools their kids attend. The school can then be a partner in education their children (however objectively suboptimally) instead of an agent of the state bent on &quot;indoctrinating&quot; their children against their will. Surely this aspect of the equation would be really difficult to investigate other than ethnographically. But it seems to me that parents modeling respect for the public schools to their children may at least sometimes be worth their kids missing even a key lesson.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yep, you’re definitely right that the costs of exiting the public school system are significant, and that alot more people will probably be coerced (rightly or wrongly) into staying in public school systems rather than leaving to go to private schools (especially since lowish cost Catholic private schools are closing left and right these days). The law may be a net negative, from the perspective of getting more kids into schools that teach the things that are publicly defensible (I’m going to assume this includes evolution and such, but it may not, let’s ignore that for now). </p>
<p>I guess all I’d have to say in partial defense of the new law is that there’s something more at stake than just which school which kids attend. Policies like the new law may cause religious and other curriculum-objecting parents to take new, more positive attitudes towards the public schools their kids attend. The school can then be a partner in education their children (however objectively suboptimally) instead of an agent of the state bent on “indoctrinating” their children against their will. Surely this aspect of the equation would be really difficult to investigate other than ethnographically. But it seems to me that parents modeling respect for the public schools to their children may at least sometimes be worth their kids missing even a key lesson.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Seligman on happiness: authentic or by definition? by Jeffrey Horn</title>
		<link>http://thisfieldisrequired.com/2012/01/03/seligman-on-happiness-authentic-or-by-definition/comment-page-1/#comment-10315</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeffrey Horn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Jan 2012 23:07:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thisfieldisrequired.com/?p=913#comment-10315</guid>
		<description>Pamela, that does help. That distinction is particularly important if Seligman (or other&#039;s using the same argument) conclude that prescription antidepressants are snake-oil from their perspective.

If positive affect is important for happiness, then these drugs can increase happiness in low positive affect individuals. If positive affect is neither here nor there, then the drugs are a sham, or they&#039;re peddling something other than happiness.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pamela, that does help. That distinction is particularly important if Seligman (or other’s using the same argument) conclude that prescription antidepressants are snake-oil from their perspective.</p>
<p>If positive affect is important for happiness, then these drugs can increase happiness in low positive affect individuals. If positive affect is neither here nor there, then the drugs are a sham, or they’re peddling something other than happiness.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Putting NH&#039;s new alternative curricula law in context by Jason</title>
		<link>http://thisfieldisrequired.com/2012/01/09/putting-nhs-new-alternative-curricula-law-in-context/comment-page-1/#comment-10306</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Jan 2012 14:24:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thisfieldisrequired.com/?p=918#comment-10306</guid>
		<description>I think the question at the end of your post is excellent (not to mention the rest). So here&#039;s why I may disagree with the law AND agree that these students benefit from public school.

I(&#039;m not sure I believe this, but I&#039;ll pose it for discussion.)

The cost of homeschooling and/or private school is considerable for the vast majority of people. Most people who object to some content in the public schools face a considerable barrier to exiting the system. Therefore, only in extreme cases of disagreement or the fairly well off will remove their students from the public school system due to curriculum. The current state of affairs, in this case, essentially coerces people who would otherwise object to this content to remain in public school. I&#039;m quite certain you&#039;ll find this coercion to be objectionable, but I think a pretty strong utilitarian argument could be made for ensuring that students are taught conventional science, to choose one example. It is my belief that not only are these students better off in a public school, but that the content these students and families would likely object to is of particular benefit to both the individuals and society. Whether this means healthy and safe sex practices or scientific method, I think there is good reason to coerce these students into experiencing this content.

Given this reality, I would rather not institute a law like NH on the grounds that you proposed. First, the number of students who will remain in the system rather than exit into homeschooling or private school is likely unsubstantial because of the high costs associated with those decisions. Second, I am substantially lowering the cost of objecting to specific content and therefore making it more likely that a broader group of students (extending beyond the current opt-out audience) will not be exposed to certain content. Believing that this specific content is quite valuable, I conclude the NH law is likely a net-negative.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the question at the end of your post is excellent (not to mention the rest). So here’s why I may disagree with the law AND agree that these students benefit from public school.</p>
<p>I(‘m not sure I believe this, but I’ll pose it for discussion.)</p>
<p>The cost of homeschooling and/or private school is considerable for the vast majority of people. Most people who object to some content in the public schools face a considerable barrier to exiting the system. Therefore, only in extreme cases of disagreement or the fairly well off will remove their students from the public school system due to curriculum. The current state of affairs, in this case, essentially coerces people who would otherwise object to this content to remain in public school. I’m quite certain you’ll find this coercion to be objectionable, but I think a pretty strong utilitarian argument could be made for ensuring that students are taught conventional science, to choose one example. It is my belief that not only are these students better off in a public school, but that the content these students and families would likely object to is of particular benefit to both the individuals and society. Whether this means healthy and safe sex practices or scientific method, I think there is good reason to coerce these students into experiencing this content.</p>
<p>Given this reality, I would rather not institute a law like NH on the grounds that you proposed. First, the number of students who will remain in the system rather than exit into homeschooling or private school is likely unsubstantial because of the high costs associated with those decisions. Second, I am substantially lowering the cost of objecting to specific content and therefore making it more likely that a broader group of students (extending beyond the current opt-out audience) will not be exposed to certain content. Believing that this specific content is quite valuable, I conclude the NH law is likely a net-negative.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Seligman on happiness: authentic or by definition? by Joe Bill</title>
		<link>http://thisfieldisrequired.com/2012/01/03/seligman-on-happiness-authentic-or-by-definition/comment-page-1/#comment-10252</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe Bill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Jan 2012 21:28:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thisfieldisrequired.com/?p=913#comment-10252</guid>
		<description>Perhaps there is another distinction that needs to be made between happiness and contentment. Happiness and contentment can go hand in hand, but needn&#039;t necessarily. Contentment implies a sort of acceptance of where you are when you are, which allows the channel of happiness to flow more freely in the emotionally &quot;positive&quot; sense.

Happiness itself is a misleading term because it is posited on a polarity--it isn&#039;t sadness. Contentment is the opposite of discontent, but it doesn&#039;t necessarily imply the &quot;extreme positivity&quot;  connoted by the term happiness.

Hence, if I were to say Jim is a very content person, but I wouldn&#039;t say he is necessarily happy--that utterance would make sense to you. If I said Jim isn&#039;t a very positive person, but he is happy, somehow that makes less sense probably because of the polar nature of happiness.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Perhaps there is another distinction that needs to be made between happiness and contentment. Happiness and contentment can go hand in hand, but needn’t necessarily. Contentment implies a sort of acceptance of where you are when you are, which allows the channel of happiness to flow more freely in the emotionally “positive” sense.</p>
<p>Happiness itself is a misleading term because it is posited on a polarity–it isn’t sadness. Contentment is the opposite of discontent, but it doesn’t necessarily imply the “extreme positivity”  connoted by the term happiness.</p>
<p>Hence, if I were to say Jim is a very content person, but I wouldn’t say he is necessarily happy–that utterance would make sense to you. If I said Jim isn’t a very positive person, but he is happy, somehow that makes less sense probably because of the polar nature of happiness.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Seligman on happiness: authentic or by definition? by pamela j. stubbart</title>
		<link>http://thisfieldisrequired.com/2012/01/03/seligman-on-happiness-authentic-or-by-definition/comment-page-1/#comment-10240</link>
		<dc:creator>pamela j. stubbart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Jan 2012 03:51:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thisfieldisrequired.com/?p=913#comment-10240</guid>
		<description>I should go back over this. But my current best understanding is that Seligman basically sets aside positive emotion/affectivity as a constituent of happiness because, even though it *seems* like feeling good/great/joyful is an important part of happiness, people vary widely in how much of those they feel even in the same circumstances, and - here&#039;s the value judgment - even the low positive affectivity people are in fact leading lives filled with objective goods, like achievement, that we ought to count as &quot;happy.&quot; 

This is not a bad position - it&#039;s near Aristotle&#039;s, and clearly defensible. But I want to take the harder line that, individual differences or not, if positive affect is an important component of happiness for humans, then the low positive affect people are missing out on something good and worth wanting, even if their lives are still going well on other dimensions of happiness (construed broadly). 

Does that help at all?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I should go back over this. But my current best understanding is that Seligman basically sets aside positive emotion/affectivity as a constituent of happiness because, even though it *seems* like feeling good/great/joyful is an important part of happiness, people vary widely in how much of those they feel even in the same circumstances, and — here’s the value judgment — even the low positive affectivity people are in fact leading lives filled with objective goods, like achievement, that we ought to count as “happy.” </p>
<p>This is not a bad position — it’s near Aristotle’s, and clearly defensible. But I want to take the harder line that, individual differences or not, if positive affect is an important component of happiness for humans, then the low positive affect people are missing out on something good and worth wanting, even if their lives are still going well on other dimensions of happiness (construed broadly). </p>
<p>Does that help at all?</p>
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		<title>Comment on Seligman on happiness: authentic or by definition? by Jeffrey Horn</title>
		<link>http://thisfieldisrequired.com/2012/01/03/seligman-on-happiness-authentic-or-by-definition/comment-page-1/#comment-10239</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeffrey Horn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Jan 2012 03:29:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thisfieldisrequired.com/?p=913#comment-10239</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m a bit confused. Did Seligman&#039;s survey conclude that positive emotion is or is not a significant determinant of happiness, and what about the size of the effect?

I say this because it seemed your review indicated that this was a value-judgment on Seligman&#039;s part, but I could just as easily see it as an input (effective or not) into happiness.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I’m a bit confused. Did Seligman’s survey conclude that positive emotion is or is not a significant determinant of happiness, and what about the size of the effect?</p>
<p>I say this because it seemed your review indicated that this was a value-judgment on Seligman’s part, but I could just as easily see it as an input (effective or not) into happiness.</p>
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		<title>Comment on social welfare, the handicapped, and special education by pamela j. stubbart</title>
		<link>http://thisfieldisrequired.com/2011/12/13/social-welfare-the-handicapped-and-special-education/comment-page-1/#comment-10238</link>
		<dc:creator>pamela j. stubbart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Jan 2012 01:42:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thisfieldisrequired.com/?p=903#comment-10238</guid>
		<description>Hi Joe - Forgot to say thanks for your comment. I don&#039;t disagree with any of it; in fact you&#039;ve done a good job of elaborating upon the very conception of happiness that Noddings, Brighouse, and other espouse.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Joe — Forgot to say thanks for your comment. I don’t disagree with any of it; in fact you’ve done a good job of elaborating upon the very conception of happiness that Noddings, Brighouse, and other espouse.</p>
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		<title>Comment on social welfare, the handicapped, and special education by Joe Bill</title>
		<link>http://thisfieldisrequired.com/2011/12/13/social-welfare-the-handicapped-and-special-education/comment-page-1/#comment-9927</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe Bill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Dec 2011 05:13:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thisfieldisrequired.com/?p=903#comment-9927</guid>
		<description>By happiness, I&#039;m going to assume you mean &quot;eudaimonia&quot; which I will here take to mean &quot;thriving&quot;. If this is not what you meant, then that will in essence nullify this commentary, but it may prove a useful perspective nonetheless.

It is possible for someone to be happy, but for them not to be THRIVING. For example, someone who is poor may be happy in the sense that they have enough food, or a roof over their heads, but they certainly are not THRIVING.

A mentally retarded or challenged or whatever the hell the PC term is nowadays person might very well be HAPPY as a prostitute, but that does not at all mean that person is thriving. 

What we ought to be doing for everyone is ensuring that each person has adequate chance to thrive. That means, in essence, having a basic quality of life that is not abysmal.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>By happiness, I’m going to assume you mean “eudaimonia” which I will here take to mean “thriving”. If this is not what you meant, then that will in essence nullify this commentary, but it may prove a useful perspective nonetheless.</p>
<p>It is possible for someone to be happy, but for them not to be THRIVING. For example, someone who is poor may be happy in the sense that they have enough food, or a roof over their heads, but they certainly are not THRIVING.</p>
<p>A mentally retarded or challenged or whatever the hell the PC term is nowadays person might very well be HAPPY as a prostitute, but that does not at all mean that person is thriving. </p>
<p>What we ought to be doing for everyone is ensuring that each person has adequate chance to thrive. That means, in essence, having a basic quality of life that is not abysmal.</p>
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		<title>Comment on on taking oneself too seriously by pamela</title>
		<link>http://thisfieldisrequired.com/2010/12/27/on-taking-oneself-too-seriously/comment-page-1/#comment-9890</link>
		<dc:creator>pamela</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Dec 2011 02:00:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thisfieldisrequired.com/?p=716#comment-9890</guid>
		<description>Thanks, glad to help!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, glad to help!</p>
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